Explore Mexico With Carol And Mario


Exploring Mexico With A Local By CulturallyOurs Podcast

Explore Mexico With Carol And Mario

Show Details

In this episode, we explore Mexico and Mexico City with Carol and Mario. Carol and Mario were born and raised in Mexico and a few years ago started a travel company to take explorers on a real and authentic journey exploring their home country. They share some of their favorite places to explore in and around Mexico City. They also share some off-the-beaten path adventures around Mexico – a country known for ancient history, culture, food and art history. From restaurants to outdoor spaces, Carol and Mario take us on a beautiful adventure – right from the comfort of our homes.

Show Notes

Karthika explores the incredibly beautiful country of Mexico and Mexico City with locals Carol and Mario. Carol and Maria are born and raised in Mexico and they share their love for this city – unique experiences in and around Mexico City. They share some off-the-beaten path adventures around Mexico that can help us explore this amazing country that is famous for ancient history, culture, archaeological sites, food and art. From restaurants to outdoor spaces, Carol and Mario take us on a beautiful adventure – right from the comfort of our homes. Karthika, Carol and Mario also talk about the future of travel as seen from the eyes of locals living in a touristy location.

The Transcript

Karthika: Welcome Carol and Mario. Thank you very much for joining me on Culturally Ours. I am excited to have you both on the podcast and I can’t wait to chat with you, get to know you a little bit better and get to know your corner of the world a little bit better.

Carol: Thanks much for inviting us.

Karthika: Absolutely. before we begin, could you both sort of tell us a little bit of kind of who you are, where you’re from, just to help set the stage for this conversation?

Carol: Sure. I’m Carol.

Mario: And I’m Mario.

Carol: We’ve been married for 10 years and everything began probably eight years ago when we moved to the UK and we started to travel a lot because the UK is kind of a hub. Everything is quite close, did those flights not that expensive? Like if you were traveling from Mexico and because we traveled a lot, we kind of started to value our culture and our history and our heritage really, but we all realized how much, the image is about our country and we wanted to do something about that. We wanted to change that perception and talk about Mexico as we know it, which is about our people and our culture. It’s not about the narcotics and drugs. They are a part of Mexico, but there are many amazing things that we want to share with the world, really, we’re back on these, we weren’t consultants then last year we decided to, to bencher and we launched this travel company that is called the Brinca Travel because we wanted to bring the local experience. I share that with the world, what really what, it’s the real Mexico that’s, it would be tough of how these, how this started.

Karthika: Awesome. you guys are born and raised in Mexico, right?

Mario: Yes.

Karthika: Excellent. Where in Mexico?

Mario: Mexico City. Both of us.

Karthika: Both of you are in Mexico City. Awesome. tell me a little bit about the sort of life and lifestyle in Mexico City. and from the perspective of just how we’ve dealt with the pandemic and everything that’s, that’s kind of gone on and it’s still going on in the world.


Carol: Mexico is, it is quite busy and loud. There are 20 million people living there. it’s like a huge experience. It’s this kind of place where all your senses are alive. We have a huge attachment to food, to family, to friends, to the community with this pandemic, that was the shock in our culture because we’re used to being tacky. We love hugs. We love smiling. When you go to the supermarket, you smile at everybody and just wearing these face masks gets very, very difficult. It’s been weird. And it’s very interesting for our point of view to see how different is that way the government is handling it, which is not handling very much like very good, it’s very, how can I say this? Depending on your economic situation, just under social situations, the stories about how people are living on surviving the pandemic are very different.

Karthika: Right. Very true. And that’s sort of in many, many parts of the world and from India and from, for the longest time we didn’t, we just didn’t have testing. there were hardly any cases and now that we have accessibility to testing, it’s just shooting up. But then the story that comes out is like, Oh my God like India is, is kind of going downhill which may be true, but it’s like the population density is big, it just depends on where you are, I guess.

Mario: Yes, exactly. And in Mexico, it was somewhat similar that at the beginning there didn’t seem to be many cases. Again, probably it was all because not many people were being tested.

Karthika: Hmm. Tell me a little bit about Mexico and Mexico City. Carol, you mentioned culture, you mentioned food, it’s a very vibrant, lively place, right? Tell me a little bit about what makes life special in Mexico City and Mexico in general?

Carol: Well from my point of view, Mexico is that country that is special, I’d say probably because of its history and its natural diversity. between those two, they made for a very interesting, and different country. We probably are similar in India in that if you go to the North, you have the hills and the mountains, right. And then you go to the South and it’s very different, you have very nice temples. Mexico is like that. We have ancient archeological sites and then we have all these colonial cities and then the mix that results from, from all that past, which is quite different except probably different. And in terms of Mexico City, for example, you’ve said it’s very vibrant and current sets are even a bit chaotic. in between all that chaos, if you go to the city center, you, you have probably some archeological site, which was destroyed and then we have some rings in there, but besides there, there’s the cathedral and then there’s the public square where people do their demonstration, like political demonstrations and social customer traces. It’s an aisle that’s surrounded by probably food stalls. And it’s just a very different place from anything else we’ve seen when we’ve traveled abroad. But, it’s kind of a very interesting mix.

Karthika: Now, you guys are in the travel space and the travel industry with your own company, and from what we are seeing and what we are hearing much of travel has changed and continues to change. Right. how do you see that sort of impact, maybe travel to Mexico exploring Mexico, exploring Mexico City? Do you see that changing over time? We are, we do believe it’s, changing from international travelers. It’s because people are kind of afraid of the second wave right now it feels weird to be far from home. The change that we are seeing is more like local people going to go around Mexico. After all, it’s like a huge country we see that change, and alike as a business, we understand that.

Carol: And right now, our priorities are a little bit different, probably it’s going to be different for the next six months where we’re focusing instead of trying to get people in Mexico urging people to travel, which right now it would be from my point of view, quite responsible, even like we are leaving something very different. The disease is still out there. It will be very responsible from our point of view to encourage people to just try [inaudible] rights. What is happening is more local people are trying to be around when it feels safe to go. And if anything happens, they can just go back home but why are we doing it, not because we cannot travel or not, because people feel afraid of going to Mexico right now, probably to other places we’re not going to showcase Weiss our country. We’re still doing stuff to share what it’s all about our country. It’s about the people that were food and everything. In our case, that’s what we’re focusing on. We are just sharing about the people that make Mexico, Mexico and sharing stories. we still let’s say spread love without compromising, other, other people’s health. And insecurity because it’s still there when it could be hopeful, but realistic right now, as we were, as we’re saying it’s traveling through your screen and if that’s what we can do right now, then we’re going to focus on, on that for, for, probably for the next six months. And then fingers crossed. Everything is going to back to probably not back to normal, but at least it’s going to be a little bit calmer and, and controlled let’s say,

Karthika: That’s the best you can hope for at this point. And I know we’re going to talk about things like travel in the future, we’ll get to that. But can I bring it back to this, the whole concept of virtual travel or armchair travel as they call it and in the hopes of maybe planning a trip sometime in the future, right? if I or somebody else would plan a trip to maybe Mexico or even Mexico City, give me a sort of itinerary on where you would take us what we would do while we would see.

Mario: Sure. Without a doubt, Carol, and I would recommend going to Mexico City. if you go to Mexico, for any reason, you have to stop by Mexico City and then don’t, don’t just land in there at the airport and go elsewhere. Usually, the obvious for many people in Cancun. We encourage you to skip Cancun and go as well, not because there’s anything bad that can come, but I just, or we think probably that you could be anywhere else in the world. There are nice beaches and nice resorts, but it lacks a bit of personality if you get what. On the contrary, if you go to Mexico City, you’re in for a treat in terms of character. I am, what I would like to say is that many people, when they go to Mexico City, they go to the trendy neighborhoods, which at the moment are Roma and Conesa. They’re nice. And they, I guess they’re trendy for the right reasons because they have lovely architecture, like lots of arts, all arts, they call buildings and just mixed with very nice coffee shops and bars and restaurants, which, which are nice, but the Mexico City center and the neighborhoods around it are nice because they’re just the heart of Mexico City. if I’d probably start any trip to Mexico City with the city center. in the city center, there’s a square, and that is a massive square site where people would usually do demonstrations for any political or social causes. And right there we have the rings off of what Mexico City was once before the Spaniards came, which is well, for me, it’s like really, really interesting and just kind of a picture of what the Spanish might have seen when they came into the heart of the city. There are still some, some pieces of that in there, which are just invaluable. And then around there you have like the government palace and many other government buildings, but probably almost next to the range is, I will tell you, it’s called just like the government palace, which is not a palace, but anyway, that’s where the government is based. But what is very interesting is that there are lots of murals by Diego Rivera, which if you are some people who don’t know him, he was the husband of Frida Kahlo, which is quite popular these days. He was a muralist and very active in politics at around that age. There are lots of his murals in this palace, which are just unbelievable. They’re very bright and colorful and quite impactful and they pretty much depict the history of Mexico. That place for me is just amazing. And there are some nice gardens in the building, but that the murals are really what, what is nice and feel a bit like small rests out of the chaos of what the city center can be, but definitely spend at least have they in the, in the city center, you can’t escape it and then he, you want something else to do, which is cool. It’s a place called Xochimilco where there are the city canals? Mexico, I don’t know if you’ve heard, but Mexico City was built on top of a Lake, which sounds crazy.

Karthika: Okay.

Mario: Probably people just complicated their lives. On top of a city, sorry, on top of a lake. there were lots of candles that connected the city with, with other places that were not like in the, in the city center at the time, which then where most of them don’t exist anymore, but in this place called [inaudible], they still have the canals and that there’s that it’s just a nice place. There are lots of wooden boats that just take you for a ride. And sometimes people just kind of hear that it’s cool and they go, and then they would just take them for a kind of a sightseeing tour. But I, that the touring itself is nice, but then many other things make it come alive that sometimes tourists would skip, like just having your kind of like a picnic on the boat. There would be smaller boats just coming around to sell you food. And it’s sometimes really, really good. you can have some nice sort of things like that. But from the other smaller boats that would just come around and then there are these places like land called [inaudible] where people like in ancient Mexico youth to youth for agriculture. they would call things like corn and, I just forgot squat corrugates. And that’s quiet and could get things like that. They use that for agricultural purposes. it’s like they have a base made out of a Wolf and then they would just put mud on top of that. And then they would use that as a parcel to grow things there. And there are many projects nowadays that are kind of wanting to bring that back and to rescue those practices of agricultural practices. It’s all very interesting to see all those nice bits that are happening there. you can easily spend again probably a whole day there or half a day having a picnic, they sell plants, and they sell. There are lots of things in the, in the different places where you can stop. But it’s quite nice. Some locals usually would plan parties there. like, they would just have a better day or things like that, where you have from 10 to 20 people just come to meet both food and drink. it’s because you can’t drink there anymore or at least not a lot. Water and drinking don’t sound like a very good idea, there’ve been some accidents in the past, now you’re encouraged not to drink as much, but it’s a very fun place and it’s beautiful as well. Go. it’s a bit far from, what you could call the center or even these other neighborhoods that I was telling you about, which are not far from the city center, but even if it’s far, I would spend the time to get there and just enjoy it because. It’s nice.

Karthika: No, it sounds fascinating. And what, as you were talking, I’m just like picturing it right. And the fact that there are many and many different things, right you can explore, you can watch people, you can look at these murals and then the whole, this architectural sort of revival sounds interesting because it’s such a big part of your history and your culture that you don’t want to be.

Mario: Yes. You shouldn’t miss it.

Karthika: One thing that you’ve kind of, you both have kind of alluded to and what I’m sure we are seeing in the travel space is that people want to go more sort of grassroots, right? They want to go off the beaten path, not super crowded and very sort of hyper-localized. If we could call it experiences. For the next few questions, I want to hear your perspective. I want to have your preference, and kind of why. What is your sort of favorite restaurant and why?

Carol: This is difficult to answer because we in your country as well, as this is up to our core. We like many options, but lately, my favorite sport is called ExpendioMiaz, which is a place that is very close to this it’s in the city center actually but to me, what makes this restaurant very special is it’s on a top floor and because the weather in Mexico City is nice most of the year. And you can see from your table all the sights around the city. The food is great as well that sometimes when the view is nice for this is completely horrible. But in this case, it’s amazing. So, all in all, it’s very crowded, very loud the music is amazing and the people that go are like the locals. To me, that just summarizes what Mexico, the city’s all about. Like just laughing in a garden, enjoying the view, enjoying this sunset. It’s just a huge, huge experience. I like it.

Mario: Right. Go where the locals go. You can’t, you can’t mistake them

Carol: Food. And it just gives you such insight into, like you said the culture, the vibrancy, the noise, it’s just, you just feel alive, right?

Mario: Yes. I’m thinking from my perspective, probably not a restaurant in particular, but tacos. And I’d say as, as you were saying, locals, can’t go wrong. wherever you see, lots of people, you should go there because empty taco places are not a good sign that has lots of people and it’s probably worth the wait, but there’s a place in the city center, but they have now some branches in different places throughout the city called El, which means like the little space or something like that, a little hole, little space because when they started, it was nothing more than just a tiny space where they, the people the Takeda, the guy that prepares and serves the tacos, he would just be there in between two buildings. That’s how it started. And now it’s a chain, but even though it’s a chain, it’s still really, really nice. that type of area is quite good and they are getting the basic Mexican food, I guess. I don’t know anyone in Mexico that doesn’t like tacos. I just love them, but you would need to go to tacos and in Mexico City, there’s a type of tacos, Al pastor, which are made out of pork and it’s like a slice of native pork. And actually, the story goes that they have some based or parts of its heritage on the kabob. Imagine, the kabob I don’t know how it’s called, like the tower of steaks that they have, they have words that they cut the meat from. I don’t know the name really, but well, in Mexico, we call it the trompo. the, because of the shape. Instead of having kabob meat, it’s lots and lots and lots of pork steaks marinated in a kind of sour, sweet sauce. And then you just have charcoal too. Usually, the fire is made of charcoal to kind of cook it. they just spin it for some, some time and they put that into the 30, and then it’s usually topped with very nice [inaudible]. But I love those tacos. anyone that goes to Mexico City should go and have tacos Al pastor, and any place with them should be, should be okay.

Karthika: I love the similarities too like in India as well, these, we call them radies, which is like the guy with a cart selling tacos. We have those kinds of things too, where, like you said they’re probably standing in the street corner or between two buildings, and it’s just, it’s just like a snack. You’re just kind of, you see him, and you have a snack and then you go about your day. It’s fascinating that it’s, and I’m sure this is in other places in the world too, where there’s a kind of food cart or food truck that we call it in the US it’s there on the street and you are just it’s street.

Mario: These in particular are not usually based like on-street stores, just because the thing that they use is probably a bit harder to put on a cart. Hold on. I’m sure there might be a couple of carts around, but there are lots of tackles obviously on the streets, like literally on their bridges and things like that. But this particular type is sometimes harder to find, like literally on the street, just because it’s a bit harder. They may, they probably need a bit more equipment. Although people waste, they find a way.

Karthika: Now tell me, what is your favorite activity?

Carol: Hmm, mine, there’s another neighborhood, which I love. It’s in the South part of the city. Again, Mexico City is huge to me, spending a Sunday in Culiacan is just amazing. You are just it’s like a Sunday stroll, there are lots of street food and street performers. You can just see the fun time and just do your people watching stuff having a nice cream, a Turo coffee. Oh my gosh. Yes. I know that like going to on a Sunday, it’s a mass for a lot of Mexican families, and that’s amazing because you go on, there’s probably a group of oh my God. I forgot the word in English. The rest of the people are just local people and maybe it’s people that they drove for two hours just to get to on a Sunday because they love it. It’s just, wow. it’s an amazing experience and it’s a very different neighborhood.

Mario: That place that Carol was mentioning used to be a bill at a town out of Mexico City, which obviously with the city growing and growing and growing, just kind of swallowed it up. It is now a neighborhood of Mexico City but feels like going to the small pebbled streets and very old buildings and things like that really, really that you can spend a nice day during the weekend there.

Karthika: Now you guys talked about diversity and not just kinds of people, but landscapes. Right. what is what are maybe some of your favorite outdoor spaces or greenery and things like that, which maybe are kind of off the beaten path, more like a tourist hangout, kind of this little village, but more like outdoor spaces.

Mario: The city center is actually a very massive place. Like it has like many different sections they say that is one of their city’s lungs because it’s huge and full of trees that helps with all the pollution that we have in Mexico City probably some tourists go to a small part of the park just because there are many murals inside the park. It is huge that even if you go as, as a tourist, you can’t manage to see everything and it’s full of people running and doing exercise and again, food stalls on it’s a very, very interesting place and it’s an outdoor space, which we, I don’t think we have enough in Mexico City.

Mario: It just came to mind that there are some places on the outskirts of Mexico City that are really local. I don’t think I’ve ever seen at yours in this place that there are a couple of them, but one is called, which is where people would go for a picnic and then there’s horse riding or all kinds of ATVs and things like that. But it’s very much what people would do if they want to have some kind of contact with nature, yes. It is not a very long drive. And then you would just take your stuff and have a picnic there. There is some kind of, it’s quiet, quite nice and it’s always been popular. its popularity has never changed. We are with locals. It’s always been popular, but I don’t think it’s ever, I don’t think I’ve ever seen it in any kind of tourist guy or anyone mentioning, Oh, I’ve been to this place, I guess because it takes some time to get there. probably people would just stick around too, to other areas, but they, that are quite nice. And especially if you probably just go to Mexico City and want to get in touch with nature, you could just easily.

Karthika: What about local experiences? Think like cooking classes since we are much into food or maybe like painting or something that like you said is not on the typical tourist agenda, but definitely, something that will help you get a feel and a flavor for Mexico and Mexico City.

Mario: One that comes to mind now quite funny is that sometimes during specific weekends, especially Sundays, they close one of the most important avenues in Mexico called Reforma. they closed that and then you can use it to cycle, but it’s cool and its pretty much just local people doing exercise stuff, but it’s great for sightseeing because as you can imagine, any other day, it’s busy, full of cars and you have many landmarks of Mexico City in that Avenue. it’s a cool way to explore the city and see it from a different perspective. You can just hire a bike or sometimes they can just lend it to you. There are different stalls there where you can have it, but, for some very local reason, I guess it’s because there’s not a very set schedule for that to happen. I guess just people would just miss it or something, but it’s something cool to see, to see, and do. And that’s very cool.

Karthika: Now, what about maybe like a local jam or something that you even, you guys didn’t know existed and you’ve kind of recently discovered know we talked earlier

Carol: About how the shallows are shifting a little bit from more touristy to more like local people traveling. have you found something that you may be forgot or haven’t been in a long time and you were like, Oh, this is such a cool place, it happened back in February I didn’t know we had all the time, he can’t garden in Mexico City? I had no like, no idea whatsoever, and it’s just such a peaceful place and it’s beautiful. It’s huge, like comparing it with other botanical gardens that I’ve seen. beautiful. It’s amazing. And it was just a surprise because a few meters away, it’s just all the traffic and all the cars and all the noise and you just walk like 10 meters or 20 meters. I’m going inside this botanical garden. That is amazing. And I was shocked because I went like, oh my God, I’ve been here many times and I’ve never seen this before.

Mario: It’s not too far from where we used to live. Yes, it was kind of a surprise.

Carol: Those are the best kinds of prices.

Mario: Yes. And there are in terms of food again their opening lots of places now and then in Mexico City, but we went just before all this COVID stuff happened to a tiny place called an expander, the mice, which is a restaurant it’s a very tiny restaurant. They probably have two tables. Large tables. you would usually sit with more people. I don’t know whether it’s open these days because there are like shared tables with other people. I don’t think they would probably be doing that now, but anyway, everything is about corn and thats all they do. It’s not all you can eat, but they will ask you how hungry you are. And then just start bringing like rounds of food. Everything is prepared there at the, at the moment and as I mentioned, everything is based in the base of everything is corn, which is funny because many times when tourists see a menu in a Mexican restaurant and things just seem to be the same, because everything starts with corn, blah, blah, blah, blah. And they’re all the same, but they just, it seems to be the same because the ingredients might be the same, but then as you cook them and prepare them, they’re very different. But anyway, they just start bringing you a starter made out of corn and then something else, and then it would be do you want some more?

Karthika: I love the concept of asking.

Mario: Yes. Because I don’t think I’ve seen a place like that before. And the quality of the food is, really, really nice. everything is locally sourced and organic, et cetera, but the flavors are just really, really good because then the teachers that they do, you can say that they’re like basic or in terms of kind of Mexican food staples, but with some twists. So, that place, we were just amazed. We loved it. We were like, Oh, we’re coming back every weekend while we’re here.

Karthika: But, it’s great that concept exists and to have a team-based and like this community sharing or this table where you sit with a lot of other people, it, it just makes the experience much richer you end up talking to somebody, you kind of ended up kind of learning their story or just smiling.

Mario: Yes. And it’s one of those places where you can see that this stuff is proud of what they’re doing, what they’re part of because of this stuff, probably what I just mentioned, that they were just a couple of tables, but all the waiters are the ones that are cooking or cooking. I remember that time, the waiter told us that she had spent quite a few hours preparing some of the sauces that were accompanying one of the dishes. They were nice, but they seemed to be very proud of what they were doing, and we just loved that place. hopefully,

Karthika: Now, this is taking a little bit of a shift. I know there is no sort of right or wrong answer, whatever, whatever you guys think, and whatever you’re comfortable sharing, where do you think travel is headed in the future?

Carol: That trend is going to be like I miss probably for the next two years that everybody’s going there, their local highlights or the local cities or towns that they haven’t seen before and just mainly because of these fears of being trapped somewhere where you don’t belong I kind of sense that I might be wrong and, and I know there are people that they’re quite adventurous as well, and they know that right now is probably the time to book travels because it’s cheap there are like many promotions, there are like many, many kinds of behaviors at the same time it’s like people react very differently to a crisis. And, and you see that even on the streets like there are people that they use the face mask everywhere, even if it’s not required or people that they don’t care, even if it’s required it’s the same with travel. Mo most of the people are going to stick to the, to their local highlights they’re going to be adventurous people and they are like it’s doing right now because it’s very clear that life is short, we need to make the best of it but that’s, that’s, that’s my opinion at the end of the day.

Mario: As Carol mentioned, probably people turning towards their own countries or areas, just trying to explore around the home and probably not just your city, but other cities within your country and, I guess it’s for more adventurous people, it’s a good time to travel because everything seems to be cheap, but it just, at least for us, we think it’s a bit hard with all the requirements probably changing as we speak every day. you could, well just go somewhere and find out that you need to be quarantined for 15 days or something like that. Where, when in the case, if you’re traveling somewhere as a tourist, just doesn’t make much sense because you would probably spend half of your time traveling there. all the people that are traveling would probably look into longer-term travels as well, where, where you can see things more calmly and spend some time there. even if you need to be current as well, at least it makes sense because you’ll be there, for more time. But I don’t think many people would be doing long flights to go to the other side of the world and spend a couple of days.

Mario: Yes. Not soon. I don’t think so.

Karthika: All right. What are your travel plans, having said that, what are your travel plans and maybe not now, maybe sometime in the future, where would you like to go next?

Mario: Well, in the short term as we live in Margate at the moment in the UK, we will be moving back to London in the next couple of weeks, but then in the next year or late around January, we want to go to Mexico. But well obviously visiting family, friends, but we would like to explore some areas there’s a place called Wahaca, which is another state, which is amazing and super diverse with mountains, colonial towns, et cetera. But we’ve been to a good part of it. We just love it, but we haven’t been to the mountain area there, in Wahaca. we are thinking of exploring that a bit and products we were saying before, like more comms and in a relaxed way kind of spending there sometime probably having Wahaca City as our base, and then just explore some of the surrounding areas that we haven’t been to yet. And in terms of our second home here you can Europe, we were all thinking about going towards more unexplored countries in Europe. We’ve been to Romania before we liked it. we’re thinking probably either going back or to the other countries around the area, let’s say more Eastern Europe then, and the other countries, what do we need to change as we are now going to try this location, independent lifestyle because as Mario said, we think that traveling is going to be like calmer and you need more time to, even if there is like a local town and you can just go outside for an hour or whatever you, if you’re going to stay in the same place for two months, then it’s like, okay, that’s all right. we’re doing everything to kind of turn around our life and the way we work and everything too, to be able to spend time in our country and explore it. But at the same time, if anything happens, it’s all right for us to stay there longer, and definitely, for us Mexico is huge. And there are many places that we’ve been to before, but we now want to go deeper, let’s say so, we’ll see. That’s the plan for the next, the next month.

Karthika: It sounds like a great plan. Thank you both. very much, this was amazing. And I seriously need to go get a snack because I’m hungry, but I appreciate both of you coming on and it’s clear that Mexico and Mexico City are very special. Thank you very much for sharing that.

Carol: Thank you for inviting us. Have you been to Mexico yet?

Karthika: No. I am waiting for the time when you guys go, so I can explore with you.

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