The Transcript

Karthika: Welcome. Julie, thank you so much for joining me on CulturallyOurs. I’m really excited to be chatting with you today and cannot wait to get to know you a little bit better.

Julie: Well, likewise, thank you so much for having me. It’s great to be here.

Karthika: Of course. So, before we begin, could you perhaps tell us a little bit about who you are, where you’re from, just to sort of help set the stage a little bit, if you will?

Julie: Sure. So, I am from Santa Barbara, California, which for people who don’t know, is about 90 miles north of LA. But it’s a much smaller, quieter beach town. I grew up here and then moved away to Portland, Oregon for a bit. But I am now back here, living with my husband and seven-month-old son. My background is mostly art and literature. As a child I was always making things and drawing things and painting things and through high school and college and Graduate School, that’s what I studied, mostly art design and sort of went to a strange master’s program. It was all about arts and crafts and learning how to make a living out of making things with your hands. We were actually the first year of the program. So, we were the guinea pigs and that was really formative in my life and sort of shaping what I’m doing now. So fast forward to now. I’m a mother who has sort of shifted my career as far as which I think we’ll talk about a little bit more later, but I do sort of a mix of things at the moment. Mostly all freelance kind of stuff. So I do freelance photography and freelance writing and then I also have a little floral business. So, a big mix of things. And somedays I don’t do any of that, but that’s what’s keeping me busy right now along with my son.

Karthika: So, you have your hands full. While you were talking about everything that you do, the best way I can describe it as being a creative. And I love how the about page on your website lists you as a thinker and a doer. I’m big picture visionary, but very sensitive to the details. So, could you elaborate a little bit on how that sort of maybe translates to your everyday life?

Julie: Yeah, of course. I think as many artists might test, I’ve always been a dreamer and kind of think in big pictures and often sort of imagine life playing with a cinematic quality. And so, the way that I’ve always sort of approached things is with that in mind, I had these big ideas, but then I’m also quite impulsive, so I want to just make it happen. One example would be, you know, when I’m working on my house or sort of restyling something or changing something up. My husband is a math teacher, so he’s very analytical. He might think about where he wants to put the nail for about 20 minutes asking, up or down or over a little bit. Whereas I’m just the one with the hammer just nailing right in 30 holes in the wall. Cause I just want to make it happen. So, in that sense, you know, I have an idea in my mind, but then I am also very hands on and want to just make it happen. And I have some other friends who are artists and they are very much dreamers, but then they let other people sort of make it happen. They might have the idea. Whereas I’ve always just wanted to get in there and get it done myself. So as far as the details, I think because I’m such a visual person I’m probably quite OCD in some sense about little details. Not necessarily like the photo has to be framed perfectly in the center, but if I see something out of place, I’m instantly drawn to that. Like I have to get rid of it. I would say my whole kind of visual approaches is very Wabi Sabi like I want it to be particular, and again, we’ll talk about this more about all the nuances of Wabi Sabi because I think some people sort of think it’s a messy aesthetic. It is imperfect, but it’s not messy. So once I learned that phrase, I felt like it totally encapsulated almost everything about me. And that’s why I was drawn to it.

Karthika: I know we’re going to talk about that down the road a little bit, but going back to your career and your artistic endeavors, you’ve served as the community director for Kinfolk. I think everybody loves Kinfolk. You have traveled all over the world and you worked on many other sorts of really well-known brands as well. What was that experience like and the people that really impacted how you approached different projects and even maybe your life and mindset?

Julie: Working for Kinfolk was definitely a big foundation for my life as it is now. In the sense that I got that job straight out of graduate school and I was the first employee there. And so, it was very much a grassroots endeavor at that point. They were just a couple who started the magazine and just by sort of chance, I met Nathan who was the editor in chief. And the reason why he came up with that idea was because I had told them about it basically being my final project in graduate school. There were a lot of pieces to it, but in essence it was kind of a community dinner that I had put on for my neighborhood. So, over the course of a year I had essentially come up with this idea that I wanted to have basically a big block party on my block, but I didn’t know any of my neighbors and I’m quite introverted and shy. So the thought of having to go to these people’s doors and sort of invite them to come to this thing was really overwhelming. But over the course of these months I sort of found ways to connect with these people and interact with them. And then on May Day we had this big potluck. And again, there were a lot of different facets to it. I was also making furniture for it and carving. But it ended up becoming this really collaborative project because very soon into the project I realized I really couldn’t do everything myself. So, I ended up collaborating with a ton of different makers in Portland, different ceramics, glass blowers, different people making textiles, all kinds of different things. And so, in telling Nathan of Kinfolk, a very short version of this, he had this idea that he wanted to do this kind of traveling dinner party that was a way to connect readers of the magazine with people who were writing for the magazine photograph for the magazine. And so that sort of what became the dinner series. And so that was just a whirlwind job. The first year we were in a different place each month hosting these dinners and then it became sort of a worldwide thing where, because I couldn’t be all of those places at once, we ended up working with basically people who became our ambassadors in different places. And so they would host dinners on our behalf and I was sort of overseeing the theme and just helping those people keep the, the feel of the magazine alive at those events. So, all that to say there were so many people that I met, whether it was just via email or over the phone, but then I’ll say it gave me a chance to travel and meet the most amazing people all over the world. And I’d say kind of the combination of those people has been so inspiring to me just because so many of them were very motivated to host these events and bring people together. And it wasn’t financially motivated, or you know, there was nothing really in it or them in a sense beyond having this opportunity to invite people into their homes or into a community space. And just sharing that moment together was what really motivated me to be a part of that and to help create a sense of community and creating kind of a sense of belonging around the dinner table. And a lot of those people were really influential to me. And, some of them I’ve gotten to go and actually meet them in person and that’s been really beautiful and transformative. Just as an anecdote, there were two sisters who hosted these events in Madrid, and they used to both be full time employed doing other things. I think one was a lawyer and the other one I don’t remember, but you know, kind of high-powered jobs. And then they started hosting these events and cooking more and sort of exploring that world. And now they’ve both quit their jobs and they own this sweet little bakery coffee shop in Madrid. And to me that’s just so beautiful that this thing that started as a small kind of expression of community has now become what they do full time. And that’s really just lovely to me that it turned into something they could both love and make a living out of.

Karthika: I love it. And you know, a lot of what you’ve said is so centered around the basic human sort of emotion of connecting with people, right? We have food, it’s great because it’s kind of neutral. There’s no biases. Like people just leave all of that away and just want to sit down and enjoy a good meal and then you connect over that.

Julie: Yes. And I find that the table is kind of this hinge in a way. It allows you to connect.  There’s no sort of awkward pretenses there. You can sit down, and it becomes a much easier place to have a conversation than just randomly in the park or something. You know I would say that when I moved to Portland and did not know anyone, I would always say that I need a dog or a baby because those are the things people typically connect over, There is something less awkward about striking up a conversation with someone when they have one of those things. So I think the table can act in that way as well.

Karthika: Yes, I completely agree. And I have a dog and I have two babies and I still think it awkward. What do I say? I want to make friends. I am a little bit of an introvert too, but I also want to meet people. I want to know their stories, so it’s always a little bit of a conundrum. Now going back to Wabi Sabi and your amazing book- I absolutely love it. And I have to share the story of how I found it. I have a really good friend who’s Japanese and we talk a lot about culture and stuff. I’m Indian, she’s Japanese and we get together every few months and we just kind of just talk about cultures and things. And she talked about this concept of Wabi Sabi and I had never heard of it until that point. I’m a very visual person as well. I love physical sort of objects and books and things like that. So, I googled the term and I found your book. I was actually traveling back home to India for the summer, so I ordered it, it came in the package and I just packed it in my bag thinking I will open it when I’m there. That way I have things to read and be entertained. Then we went to this place in the Himalayas where we stayed for a few weeks, completely rustic and off the beaten path and I am sitting there one day with my cup of chai in my hand and opened up the book and I was in love. I was so floored with everything. Of course, the visuals are incredible, but I think for me, what struck me the most is how, even though it’s a Japanese concept, you talked about different countries and how you could apply them, no matter where you are, no matter what community you belong to, no matter what your style is. I think that just made it very approachable and very relatable.

Julie: Well, I’m so glad to hear that. That’s exactly what I wanted it to be.

Karthika: It’s an amazing book. I’ve gifted it to a lot of my friends and everybody who gets it is like, oh wow. I mean, the spine is so beautiful. Everything in it is so beautiful.

Julie: Well, thank you. I wanted it to be both a very down to earth thing, but also a kind of a beautiful healing object in a way to give people a sigh of relief. Like, oh, I don’t need to be a perfectionist all the time.

Karthika: Yes, that’s exactly right. A sigh of relief and like breathing space, I think, you know, permission to just like kind of take a deep breath and say, okay, let me tackle this. Let me put forth this and entertain my friends in a certain way. Or even decor in the house a certain way, but not too cluttered. But anyway, I want you to tell me, what was your motivation behind it and what is Wabi Sabi to you?

Julie: Yes. I learned about Wabi Sabi concept in graduate school. And I think it was actually during a critique when a professor said, ‘oh, your aesthetic is very Wabi Sabi and I don’t know if he meant it as a good thing, but when I went to find out what it was, I thought, oh, exactly. That is me. That is what I’m drawn to that aesthetic and that sort of approach to life. And so, as I came to learn more about it, I just really resonated with the concept. And I think I sort of put it in my back pocket, I guess as something that struck me, as something that felt like it could be shared with other people. And I think generally the idea of the book came from this sense that feeling like a lot of people are intimidated by entertaining and by welcoming people into their home. When I lived in Portland I was in my early twenties, and it was kind of the first time I’d had my own home and my own space to really welcome people into. And I found that that was really in a sense it felt like my calling there was to welcome people into my home. And I felt like it became this really soft-landing place for a lot of people, a place to heal and be listened to. And so it just felt like that needed to be shared with other people in the sense that your home can be this really beautiful personal space that is not just a place to have sort of, you know, things of status or things that kind of show off how well off you are or something. But it can be this really comforting, wonderful place that you can invite people into. And it doesn’t have to be perfect. It can have, you know, imperfections built into it. And I think that makes people feel even more at home than if it’s this kind of spotless, perfect place. And so just sort of having that sense I think is what led to the book. And I think not in a bad way, but I think after having worked at Kinfolk for several years where every image did have this kind of perfect feeling to it. I just realized like, Oh, these images are very styled and there they’re not just these, you know, natural occasions that are just sort of happening by chance. These are as you have to do for a magazine, you have to create these moments and photos and I think I just wanted to create something that was different than that and felt a little more natural and unstylish. And so with the book, I wanted to capture people’s homes as they were and go into them. And obviously in order to get these photos, I’d have to say, well, let’s have a dinner, or let’s have a meal together. And so, in that sense it was orchestrated, but I never did anything to style the images or move anything or pick up clutter or anything. All the images were totally candid and so that was kind of the motivation, just wanting to make Wabi Sabi a concept that felt approachable and something that people could understand and an easy way to make something that felt very beautiful. And I wanted it to be some parts aspirational and some parts, Oh I can do this in my own home, or I can do this in my own life. So yeah, that was kind of a long answer, but that was the motivation behind the book. And just wanting to share this concept with the wider world. Since I felt like not that many people that I had encountered necessarily knew what it was.

Karthika: I completely understand. The way it is laid out too, and the narratives. It’s not just a book of pretty images. It has narratives that provide practical tips. I think when both of them fit, connected together it makes it doable for an average person. There’s some beauty to be found in what others, quote unquote call a messy house. Right? It’s the most it’s lived in. It’s a house that has character. It’s a house that has emotions, right? So, don’t look at it as the mess, but actually look at it at all these other things.

Julie: Exactly.

Karthika: Now you mentioned this earlier that you recently welcomed a baby boy. Congratulations. How has your journey into motherhood been and do you find Wabi Sabi making its way in there too?

Julie: Oh, my, every moment of every day. The journey into motherhood has been wonderful and tiring and stressful at moments, but mostly just full of it joy. I wanted to be a mom for a long time. What I tell people over and over again is that all the clichés are true, time moves too fast. And they grow up way too quick and the years are too short. All those things. They’re all true. And it’s kind of hard to believe that this person just seemingly comes out of nowhere and all of a sudden being in your life and has this great little personality and character and he’s sort of in a maniac phase where he’s crawling everywhere. It’s been a special season, but you also a lot of things get put on the backburner because that new person just demands a lot of time and attention and that’s wonderful. Most moments are also exhausting. But as far as Wabi Sabi goes, as I’ve said to many people, I feel like part of why I wrote the book is that it was instructions to myself to chill out and not be such a perfectionist. And I often say I’m a recovering perfectionist, so that’s sort of ingrained in me. And to have a new child means that there are things are often out of place in the house and there’s toys everywhere and beds often don’t get made. And that’s just fine. I’m trying to embrace it as a beautiful part of life at the moment. Some moments I just feel overwhelmed and like the house is insane but mostly I’m trying to just kind of oversee that and say, it’s okay. People can still come to the house when things aren’t perfectly in place. A big part of Wabi Sabi is finding beauty in those just kinds of messy moments or the really mundane moments of every day. And I think with a child, you’re really forced to be in the present all the time. So yes, I’d say that that is one of the best in a Wabi Sabi parts of having a new baby is just that I find myself far more in the present rather than thinking about and worrying about the future or the past. Just kind of being in the here and now and surrendering myself to that in a way.

Karthika: So Wabi Sabi is helping you balance all these things, is that fair?

Julie: Yeah, I would say definitely true. And, you know, to be honest, I’d say it’s difficult to find balance right now and I’m just sort of realizing that things are going to be a little out of balance right now. And that having a new person in my life, a new infant means that some other things that have been more at the forefront just need to kind of take a back seat right now. And Wabi Sabi helped me realized that it is okay. Everything doesn’t need to be in perfect balance right now. I can’t get much done right when he’s with me. So, I’m just enjoying his little personhood.

Karthika: Babies are great that way. Now if you’re open to sharing with us, because I really feel like people connect better when they can put themselves into some similar situations or experiences. So whatever you’re comfortable sharing. What has been some of life’s most beautiful seasons for you? And on the flip of that, what have been some of the difficult seasons?

Julie: That’s a great question. I will start out by saying that sometimes those really wonderful seasons can also be challenging seasons. So, I mean, a new baby is a perfect example of that in the sense that this is one of the most joyful times in my life and happiest times, but I’m also quite tired and feel, feel like I have had no personal time. Just having a new baby can be challenging, but it’s also a really wonderful time. So, I don’t know that they’re always mutually exclusive, but in the past, I’d say some more challenging times have been usually the seasons right after kind of a big high, I guess. I worked for Kinfolk for three and a half years or so. And after that I was pretty burnt out. So, I decided to kind of take a step away and start doing freelance work. And there was just kind of a dry, really dry period in there where I didn’t have a lot of work and didn’t have a lot of money and I was kind of wondering like what’s going to happen and what’s next and what am I supposed to be doing? That can definitely shake your confidence and make you feel like, what is the work I have done in the past and does it mean anything and is it ever going to lead to anything else? And honestly right after I finished the book, I had a similar season. The book was a really long endeavor from conception to publication was about two and a half years. Obviously, some of that time I was working on other things, but a lot of that was just full time. I was working on the book and then even after it came out, I was still doing a book tour and there was a lot of promotional stuff that took up a lot of my time. And so, I wasn’t really able to work on anything else or focus on anything else. And I think, you know, after that I kind of thought like something will just sort of crop up after this and something will naturally take shape. But it didn’t happen when I thought it would and it took a lot longer to sort of figure out what the next thing was for me. And yeah that was definitely a really challenging period cause, I just felt like I had accomplished the biggest thing in my life. And then sort of very anticlimactic follow up to that lead me thinking that I didn’t know what I was doing. While I was working on my book, I had moved back to Santa Barbara and Santa Barbara is a very different landscape than Portland. Portland has tons of creative stuff going on in tons of work for freelancers. With Santa Barbara there are about 100,000 people and there’s not a lot of creative work here. And so I just kind of felt like I was in this barren desert of not knowing what to do. That kind of turned around eventually. Those seasons can be challenging, but I think you end up realizing like there’s always going to be ups and downs and sure.

Karthika: Completely agree. So, what would you say some of these life seasons have taught you?

Julie: Persistence. Often, it’s not really about what I do, but something or the other comes out of it and works out in the end. And so, I think maybe one of the best things I’ve learned from those seasons is how important having like a strong community around you that can continue to support you and sort of help lead you into the next season. And you know, I think for me, one of the of best supporters and encouragers during that time was my husband, just because I see him the most and only he knew what was going on. And to have someone who was just continually encouraging me. And it can be very easy, especially in our sort of culture and society, to feel like I don’t have worth if I don’t have a really successful job. One of the first things people always ask you is, oh, what do you do for your job? And if you don’t really know what your job is or what you’re doing, and that can be really kind of depressing or it can make you feel like, I don’t have anything interesting to share. And so, having people around you who reminds you of your inherent value beyond just what you do or what job you show up at is extremely valuable and important, especially for those hard seasons.

Karthika: Yes. I hate the phrase, fake it till you make it.

Julie: Oh yeah. Because that adds so much pressure. It makes you feel worse I think.

Karthika: Perhaps let’s start to wrap this up just in the interest of time. A few more questions. If there’s some advice or a sort of a life lesson that you could tell a younger Julie, what would it be?

Julie: I think one of the things I would probably tell myself is to just relax a little bit. I’ve always been a really hard worker and super self-motivated and always kind of thinking about the next thing. But I think probably one of the things I want to say is just enjoy this moment a little more and be in the present more often. As I’m learning right now just because time really flies, and you realize it more and more as you get older. There’s a lot of things that I wish I had known. I had basked in a little bit more in my youth, just realizing this isn’t forever. This is a very special time and things won’t always be this way. Learning how to not be worried about the future. I think that’s a difficult task for anyone. But yeah, I think that’s probably one of the things I would have told myself.

Karthika: That’s so true. So, what do you do for fun Julie?

Julie: We love to go to the beach. We love to go for walks. We love hiking. My husband is a surfer, so I’ve been learning how to surf. That’s a lot of fun. Picnics with friends. We like to cook a lot. That’s a fun thing for us. I’ve always loved to bake. That’s usually a sort of an outlet for me. It’s a fun thing to do on my own and usually something I share with friends. With the child life changes a little bit, but we’re able to do a lot of those things still.

Karthika: I wish I was more of a cook and I am definitely not a baker.

Julie: I don’t get much time to it as much as I like to now. But I am sure down the road, it will be a little bit easier when I can get Oliver to help me in the kitchen.

Karthika: Let’s do a quick rapid fire round to get to know you a little bit better. So, don’t think just say whatever comes to mind.

Julie: Okay.

Karthika: Here we go

• Coffee, tea or something stronger: coffee
• Favorite flavor of ice cream?: Also coffee
• A quote that you get inspired by: Attention is the rarest and purest form of generosity
• Movie genre action, adventure or drama: Probably adventure
• Favorite seasons. Spring, summer, fall, winter: summer
• Childhood dream job: I wanted to be a veterinarian.
• Beach or mountains? Definitely beach
• Tacos or pizza. Those are a tie for me to answer that one.
• In the spirit of the adventure – marvel or DC comics: I have to admit I don’t know anything about either
• Favorite country in the world:    Probably Italy. I just love the people and the food and culture and the architecture. I love that people just have so much gusto there. I mean, everything is done with such enthusiasm, whether it’s dressing themselves or eating or greeting people. When you hear an Italian speak, it’s incredible the way they talk and everything about it is just this beautiful kind of explosion of color and culture. And I love that the culture there has really been preserved I think in a way that a lot of places these days it hasn’t.

Karthika: So, Julie, what lies ahead for you? Are you fully living your dream or what is sort of your aspirations for the future, if you don’t mind sharing with us?

Julie: That’s something I asked myself regularly these days, what lies ahead. Two things that I’ve kind of always dreamed of doing. One would be, which I can see sort of happening more on the immediate future is that interiors and spaces have always been something that I’ve been super drawn to, which you can probably sort of tell from the book is that I love home spaces. And so, I’ve always sort of wanted to get more into interior consulting. Sort of helping people create homes that feel really good and welcoming and beautiful to them. But sort of a longer term dream that I’ve always thought about probably since I was, I don’t know, 18 or something, is to someday have kind of like a bed and breakfast type place or like a kind of artists’ retreat place that people can come and stay for short or long periods of time. One thing that you can’t really do when you’re helping someone else create their home, obviously you have to sort of play into their vision as well. But if I were to be able to have a space like that, I feel like I would always be kind of tweaking it and getting to do whatever I wanted to the space. And also, just welcoming people in for meals and having this really beautiful community space for art and music and culture and conversation. That’s definitely a long-term dream. So maybe years down the road that will take shape. But that’s always kind of at the back of my mind.

Karthika: That sounds absolutely beautiful. And just based on your aesthetics and the book, I know it’s going to look amazing even more than look, feel amazing, and people can really connect. Thank you so much, Julie. This was absolutely amazing, and I cannot tell you how excited I was when you said yes, because I’ve really wanted to chat with you for a long time.

Julie: Thank you. It was a pleasure to talk to you and it’s been fun to correspond with you over the past, few months and now finally be able to talk in person. Well, sort of in person here. Thank you for inviting me on onto the podcast.