The Transcript

Karthika: Welcome, Yulia. Thank you so much for joining us. I cannot wait to chat with you.

Yulia: It’s a pleasure to be here.

Karthika: Let’s just jump right in because I know it’s going to be a very interesting conversation. Yours is a story of migration, right. So can you tell us a little bit about your home country, where you grew up, your family?

Yulia: Sure. So for me, migration is actually a through line that kind of runs throughout my whole life. I was born in the beautiful country of Kazakhstan and by the age of three our family moved to Estonia, which is kind of all the way across, through Russia from Kazakhstan, so quite far. And so I actually grew up in Estonia. I was Russian growing up in Estonia, kind of going through the breakup of the Soviet Union and remembering all of that, the interesting part of our history. And then at the age of 16 I moved to the United States and here in the states, I’ve also been kind of moving from state to state and through many different places. So migration is definitely something that I can relate to from, from an early age

Karthika: That is so fascinating. So Kazakhstan and Estonia  you were pretty young then, but do you remember what it was like growing up there? Do you remember parts of your culture that, you know, even today, kinda have really a strong place in your mind and in your life?

Yulia: Yeah, absolutely. Well, I think the biggest thing that really impacted me was that, you know, as I said, I was born in Kazakhstan, but then we moved away when I was three, but starting the age of five, I started coming back to Kazakhstan every summer and in fact my first solo flight happened when I was five. So I have always gone back and forth from Kazakhstan and Estonia, which are very different countries, you know, one is very typical, Central Asian, a lot of kind of Mongolia. And then Muslim heritage and the other one is very European, kind of nordic, Scandinavian culture. And so going back and forth between those two places from an early age, it always made me feel like I’m kind of an outsider in both, but also in some weird way an insider in both, if that makes sense. But I am Russian by ethnicity and my culture was also always very strong in both places in Kazakhstan and in Russia. And so add another layer on top of that when I was born and it was still the Soviet Union. So there was this whole sense of kind of shared camaraderie, you know, you can meet people from all the different places from the Soviet Union in all the different republics, the movement of people within the United States. So with union borders being very free, so you really meet people from all over the place. And that from an early age really inspired me to be curious about cultures.

Karthika: That is so fascinating. I mean, I’m actually like right there with you. I feel like I’m going through those flights and going through life in Kazakhstan and going through life in Estonia, just the way you’re describing it. It just feels like such a fascinating time and experience. Were there any challenges when you were going through this entire experience?

Yulia: I think I was quite lucky from an early age where I had this inherent belief in people, if that makes sense. So because of that, I always approach people with an openness and with the benefit of the doubt. So from an early age, I always met people who, reciprocated to me and they were also very open and we always had good experiences together. But in terms of challenges, I think probably the biggest one is that thing that I mentioned earlier. I did always feel that sense of being an outsider because I left Kazakhstan at an early age and I didn’t feel that was my place anymore. Although I loved coming back there and I always had such a great time there, but it just didn’t feel like it was my home anymore.

Yulia: And then when we’re trying to establish a new life in Estonia, we always were the outsiders from the get go because there is that. I’m talking about challenges. There is that difficult history there with Soviet Union occupying Astonia for many, many years and the Estonians, to the people who were born and grew up there, even though it was still Soviet Union when we moved there, they didn’t really did not like people who are coming from other places to establish a life there. So there definitely were some challenges and I would say that while it was still the Soviet Union, it wasn’t felt as bad, but when the Soviet Union fell apart and Estonian gained its independence, then as a Russian, I definitely felt that I am treated differently than other people around me, you know?

Karthika: You said something that was so interesting that the belief in people and just the thought that, you know, at the end of the day, everybody is nice and people want be friendly is so true. I think as a child, and I see this in my own kids as well, there’s an innocence.We just want to be friends. Sometimes it’s as easy as I see this with the kids. They go up to another kid in the playground and they say, will you be my friend? And it is that’s simple. I think when we become adults we lose that. We add on all these complexities which perhaps really don’t need to be added on. So I love that. Why all the moves, I mean, was it sort of more for work or just for a better life or anything else that perhaps you are okay to share?

Yulia: So you know, it was quite common actually in the Soviet Union for people to move from one republic to another for new jobs, opportunities, et cetera. We moved to Estonia because my father was actually in the Soviet military, so he got transferred there. It wasn’t really by choice. And so that’s how we ended up in Estonia. And then when I moved to the United States, that was also for searching for new opportunities, new jobs because after the break of the Soviet Union, Estonia went through a very hard time. Economically  it was difficult and I definitely remember all those times growing up, poor and not being able to like not, not even knowing what we’re going to have for dinner that night, things like that, you know, so it was challenging. So then the opportunity came for my mom to actually move to the states temporarily to do some work. And then I decided that I will come and see her for some time. I got a student exchange visa and I came here to the states at 16. And the rest is history.

Karthika: So coming here, it was so different from what you are used to and that too, as a teenager how was that adjustment and did you find it very different or was it easy to assimilate into?

Yulia: It was a shock and you know, of all the places in the United States that I could have come in. So I came into Miami and I’ve never seen an ocean before and I’ve never been in this hot and humid weather. I will never forget the moment that I stepped out of the Miami International Airport into the street and I was just completely immediately wet from sweat from the humidity. And I was like what is this place? I never knew anything like that. In Estonia, it’s a very kind of a typical your European climate, I guess I would say northern European climate. So starting with the weather, the shock was there, and then seeing palm trees and seeing the beach it was interesting because it just all felt so free and so different from anything that I’ve ever experienced before. Estonia is a very proper country and what I mean by that is there are a lot of customs, there are a lot of kind of unspoken norms in which to behave, you know, when you’re meeting people, when you’re in some social situations, like there’s a lot of rules I guess. And in the states, particularly in Miami, I, I immediately picked up that everybody behaved the way they want it to.

Karthika: I totally understand the humidity. For me, it’s when I go back home to Bombay again, being in the coal on the coast, right. It’s like you get out of the airport and then it just hits you like a ton of bricks and you’re like, oh my God, it doesn’t matter what time it is because you know, we just have hot and hotter. So. But, uh, totally, uh, totally get that. So what happened, um, after you moved here to Miami,

Yulia: So as any good immigrant story goes I went to work and that was quite different from Estonia too because in Estonia it is unheard of that a 16 year old teenager will be working and it’s unheard of that a 16 year old teenager will have a car six months after she gets here, you know. So in that sense, I was so proud to tell all my friends who were back in Estonia that guys, I’m driving this 1991 Buick, you know. It was just something out of a movie. So I immediately kind of went into this lifestyle and this culture. I went to high school here in Miami and I was working at a Russian bakery in Miami. There are quite a few Russians that live in Miami and have made a life there, you know, there’s a lot of stores on the beachfront with restaurants and bakeries. And so I started working there and I just kind of assimilated quite quickly. The first year was extremely difficult because, as you can imagine, a 16 year old teenager, my whole life is my friends at that poInt. Just being separated from them and being dropped into this new weird environment that was very tough. But I assimilate. I found new friends here in the states and the possibilities of what is possible here in the states excited me for sure.

Karthika: That sounds like the right way to get assimilated into any situation. You kind of go with the flow. You take what is life throws at you and make you make the best of it and you find a community.

Yulia: You know, I think that that was one that was the biggest reason why it worked because yes, I came here on my own, but we had friends in Miami that we knew and there was this huge Russian community that existed in Miami. So while I came alone I ended up being not alone. And I think that made all the difference.

Karthika: Absolutely. I think finding that support system is so important. Even if it is just somebody to talk to in, you know, your natIve, a native language, like you said, getting into a Russian bakery. Just little things that help kind of ease the process a little. A little bit of what you’re used to and a lot of what you’re trying to get used to. So I think that’s a good way to make it work. Now you joined the military right after high school, right? I would love to know how that was as a woman, as an immigrant. Did you face any sort of challenges. I have no idea of life in the military. So I’m asking you, is it very seamless?

Yulia: Well, Why I decided to join the military is because from the early age, I was really interested in different cultures, government countries all of those things. And for the longest time my dream was actually to become a diplomat and to study international relations. So when I finished high school, I went to college there in Miami for a couple of years and I was pursuing international relations degree. And that’s when actually the opportunity came about to join the military. The recruiter was very quick to point out to me that was kind of a straightforward way into international relations by joining the military, which, you know, I later find out that that might not have been the case. But anyway, so I joined the military with that kind of motivation in mind to continue pursuing this track of international. And, and when I ended up in bootcamp actually here in Chicago, I, very quickly, realized that perhaps I didn’t have all the facts so when I joined because it wasn’t quite in the path and the experience that I was expecting. And I would say that it was a, it was a very difficult experience for me and in many ways it was a defining one of the several defining experiences of my life go on going through the military because I’m particularly as a woman. It was tough, for example, in our unit, after going through bootcamp, I ended up in naval aviation unit stationed in Washington, and the percentage of women that we had in the unit was maybe somewhere around five percent. But you know we all made the best of it and we all try to support each other and stick together. But it was definitely very challenging. And you know, there’s also a certain culture that exists in some places in the military. Bravado and a very macho kind of culture. And navigating that was quite difficult. One thing I would say though, I do feel like I was treated a little bit differently, particularly as an immigrant, a woman in the military. I was treated with probably more respect than my US women counterparts and I couldn’t exactly tell you why that was. I haven’t really been able to put a finger on it, why that was, but I always felt that, you know, from all the different people that I came across while I was in the military when they learned my story and well actually my name gave it away right away because we all wore it on our uniforms. But I always felt that there’s some sort of treatment that’s a bit different. And that probably helped me get through the military as well.

Karthika: That is so interesting and that makes sense. I mean, it’s fascinating hearing you talk about it and you know, the fact that perhaps there is that little bit more respect that being, even though you’re an immigrant, you’re sort of giving your life for your country. That there is patriotism, right, not just for people who are born in a particular country, but for people who essentially make a life in another country. They give it their all and what a fantastic way to do it. I’m getting goosebumps, but I mean, the fact that your experiences are really quite motivating.

Yulia: There aren’t too many immigrants in the military. I would say there is a small subsegment of the overall immigrant population. So I think you’re right. I think that’s what it was.

Karthika: Now, how many years did you serve?

Yulia: I served for four years and it was just my luck that, when I joined the global war on terror campaign was just about starting, and the unit that I joined before this campaign started, they were always going to all the cool places in the world and they went to Japan and South Korea and, and the like. And when I joined and when I came to my unit, literally several months later, we were told that we are going to Afghanistan. That was interesting. So in the four years that I spent in the military, I spent six months and one year in Iraq. Aside from just being in the military, being in those two places and that time it was from 2005 to 2009. So at the height of those campaigns, it was such a weird experience for me. Especially in Afghanistan because I was literally three countries away from the place I was born in Kazakhstan, and it was just such a weird sensation. I remember when we landed on the base in Afghanistan and I walk out of the plane and I smelled the air and breathe the air and I just feel like I’m back to what I know. I’m back through the region that I know and love, and it was just such an incredible sensation.

Yulia: I got goosebumps then and am getting goosebumps now just remembering it because it just felt so weird. But now I was back in this region in a completely different role, and also representing something that I didn’t entirely believe in. You know? So in a way this was a big internal struggle for me as well because as a pacifist, as a person who believes in the openness and the goodness of people, it was tough for me to be there. And of course there’s this is a ongoing debate and the subject for maybe a whole other podcast. Some of the things that we were doing I believed in because we were definitely helping people and I myself was part of many efforts where we distributed clothes and medical supplies, etc. But there were also things that within there that I completely did not believe in. Yet I was part of that force and I was there. So that was very difficult for me. And the other thing was that Afghanistan as you know, has a big history with Soviet Union as well. And in my family and in my culture, I have a lot of people who went through that war of the 80s. And so it’s just so weird for me on many levels to be back in Afghanistan as a Russian American, and as a military personnel.

Karthika: I can only imagine, as you were talking, that internal struggle because, you know, you said this earlier, growing up, you were surrounded by people who were perhaps different from you, but still  finding that community, finding that camaraderie, people generally are nice and they want to be helpful. And then to be put into a situation like what you’re describing, the internal battle that has got to be really hard and it’s got to be something that it’s sort of weighs down on you

Yulia: For sure. And you know, speaking of feeling like an outsider again, because I did actually, I felt as an outsider in the military force andwhen we were in Afghanistan, for example, I somehow found a community just outside of that. We were on base,  we were stationed high up in the Hindu Kush mountains, which are beautiful mountains by the way. Amazing, amazing place. Beautiful. I’ve got to say its an incredibly beautiful country and so on base, I quickly found friends who were not part of the us force, but we’re actually part of support personnel that comes from all over the world to support the effort. You know, there are electricians technicians, there are guards there are cooks in the mess halls where we eat and there are hairdressers who cut our hair on the base and guess where all those people come from. They come from Kurdistan and they come from Georgia, the country and they come from Kenya and all of different places. It’s incredible how huge that support communities and people don’t really talk about that. And I don’t think many people know about this. You know, the assumption is kind of is that when we are stationed on a base somewhere in the world, and maybe in the people of the country are there actually in reality, that’s not how it happens. There is this huge support, a community that comes with those efforts. And so I met people from Nepal, from Kurgistan and Georgia and Kenya and those people became my friends, you know?

Karthika: Wow, that’s so interesting. Yes we can talk about this in a whole other podcast, but let’s bring it back to back to your  life’s path. So once the military got done, was it easy for you to sort of get back to civilian life and get back to just being with family and all the things you had sort of gotten used to before you left?

Yulia: I say yes and no and yes, because in a way it was easy for me to follow or to continue following a certain path after I got out of the military. And this is actually a subject that I love to talk about. How we make the choices that we make in life in terms of our careers and what we want to do in life. This is something that’s near and dear to my heart. And, you know, maybe we can chat about that a little more later, but basically I followed the path that was kind of laid out in front of me, you know, because a lot of people who go through the military experience here in the United States, when they come out, they become highly sought after candidates for all kinds of graduate schools, particularly the business schools. So as soon as I got out, I, I applied for MBA programs and I started school right after. And so in that sense, it was easy for me to assimilate back into civilian life because that path was there and I just had to follow it, you know? But at the same time that made it not so easy. It was in those four years  I became part of something much larger than myself. And when I got out of the military, I realized over time that I missed that sense of belonging to something so big that no one person can ever hold on on their own. But being part of this huge global community of who are trying to do something, that sense of belonging to something this big, I definitely missed that.

Karthika: So like a belonging to something and making a difference in the world, doing something that is far more than just your own internal sense of accomplishment?

Yulia: Yes, absolutely. And I would say to you, that there are a lot of people in the military who definitely believe in what they’re doing. Don’t get me wrong, there are huge positive efforts that the military does all around the world, from relief efforts to rescue operations. So being part of that, the way we used to call it in the military is a global force for good, being part of that and then no longer having it in your lives. That was definitely something that I missed. I don’t mean to downplay the fact that those who are not in the military don’t do it. I mean, if you can find your purpose, if you can find something that truly gives you joy in serving other people, I think that’s such a wonderful thIng. But this global force of good, this effort to make a difference. It’s a phenomenal experience.

Yulia: It does sound that a fantastic learning opportunity and I would argue that a lot of what you do now is very similar, but I’m sure we’ll get to that. So how did life sort of play out after the military? You went to grad school, you got your MBA and then what?

Yulia: The MBA was a great experience. I met so many people from all over the world. Are you starting to see a trend here?

Karthika: Yes I certainly am.

Yulia: I became friends with people from China, India, Pakistan, and Iran.One of my best friends is from Iran. And it just, that experience lifted me up so much for two years. It was just a wonderful experience and then after the MBA was over, I went into corporate and I worked there for several years and that experience quickly brought me down from the air because what I realized is that when you are in an MBA program, you think that everything is possible and there are so many ideas. You can change the world and then you go into this corporate kind of grind day in, day out and very quickly, you know, the stresses of the job than demands, the routine. It all gets to you. And so that’s kind of what happened to me. I was doing this for several years and I continued traveling also, you know, every chance I got, I continued traveling even it’s quite hard with the us corporate vacation policy. I became very inventive. For example, I went to Dubai for a weekend because I didn’t have any vacation days left. So I just took off and for a weekend I just went to Dubai from Chicago. And soon I just started feeling stuck to be honest and, and feeling like all those experiences that I’ve had throughout my life. Is this what they were going to culminate in. The kind of feeling that I kept having is this it? Is this all I’m supposed to do? And it just felt like it wasn’t, you know, because sitting in front of Powerpoint and Excel all day, I felt very stuck.

Yulia: And so after about three years of this type of work, I decided that I have to make a change and I have to do it now or forever forget about it, so to speak, because again, you’re on a certain track. So about three years ago I decided to try something completely different and took a leap and quit corporate and it was the scariest thing that I’ve ever done today, but also the most amazing thing that I’ve ever done today.

Karthika: This makes so much sense. I’ve noticed this pattern with the people that I speak to, right? I mean we all come to where we are, by way of a lot of experiences and a lot of ups and downs. But I think eventually where we land, it’s so connected to who we are. I mean, you have a story of moving from here to there and then you kind of go to the military and you again travel all over the world. And now finally, I feel like you are doing exactly what you’re meant to be doing. All these other experiences have just sort of led you to understand or get a better understanding of what makes you happy, what motivates you and how you see your life, you know, in front of you, right? Forget the five year tenure, all of that stuff. Typical MBA kind of lingo. Forget all of that. What makes you happy? What do you want to do for the rest of your life? So you might not see it, but I think everybody around you sees that you are finally exactly where you’re supposed to be. And that kinda leads me to my next question. So what do you do now?

Yulia: Yes. So now I wear many hats is probably the best way to put it. But everything that I do now professionally, revolves around travel. I’m living my life really the way that I have imagined this or to the best of your abilities and, and, and really trying to fulfill your potential. So I have several different things that I’m working on, but mainly I’m a travel journalist so I write and I take photography for different brands and outlets all over the world. And recently I also started a travel company where we take people to places around the world that often get a bad reputation in the media. And so we try to provide that really authentic connection to people who live there to let the travelers see how it really is on the ground. And the impetus for that was really my experience as a travel journalist for the past couple of years because I had an opportunity to travel extensively in the middle east, in Africa and some other places and, you know, everywhere I went alone as part of my job and I’ve always gotten this question, well, how do you do it or is it safe there? How can you really go there? and I’ve always tried to kind of really show people how it really is there through my work, through my photography, my writing. But recently I started feeling that maybe it wasn’t enough because really the best way to for people to learn is to experience. And so that was really the impetus of it. So I started thinking, how can I create those experiences for people to see what I see when I go to Jordan, when I go to Palestine, when I go to Morocco, you know and to really understand that what we get here in the US those headlines that we get, maybe the sensationalized one percent of really what’s happening on the ground in those places. And again, everywhere I go, when I travel, I meet people who are incredibly kind, incredibly generous and welcoming, and I’ve had some of the best experiences of my life in those regions. And so now when I lead people on the trips with Nomad and Jules, my travel company, this is what I’m looking for. I want people to have those eyeopening shared humanity experiences.

Karthika: I love it. I absolutely love it. And I know you have taken people on some amazing trips. I think you’re on the right track in that need of wanting to give people a more real sort of a view, an experience beyond what you read and what you sort of see. Right? I mean, even with your story about being in the military where you talked about, you put emphasis on the support personnel, something that typically we don’t hear about it, right? We only hear about the core units. So just, just that feeling that no matter what you’re going to be honest and you’re going to be true to the culture, the community, the people that you take all these travelers to is something to be commended. I think that’s, that’s absolutely phenomenal. Do you feel that as an immigrant this is an easier conversation for you or an easier sort of, path for you because you’ve had those experiences because you’ve met people who are sort of ready to take you in kind of, you know, give you shelter proverbially, but also kind of make sure that you are okay?

Yulia: Yes, absolutely. In fact, I joke sometimes that really my true home is the road, because that’s where I feel the most. I’m invigorated in some way when I’m in some new place, meeting people and learning their stories and understanding how different we are in many different cultural ways, but how similar we are in all of our basic human needs and aspirations and, and it’s just such an incredible feeling to have because really when you get down to it and you take five minutes and you sit down with someone in Jordan and you share a cup of coffee with them very quickly, you learn that they all have the same aspirations as you do. They want to be safe. They want their family to be safe, they want their children to have good futures and good education and be able to do what they want. They want to have good food and they want to share that food with you. You know, they want to share a laugh and a story and It’s just so basic and so fundamental. On a human level that, I mean, I don’t know. I think if, if everyone in the world had the ability to go and spend some time with the other, you know, the world would be such a better place.

Karthika: Oh, I absolutely agree. In fact I couldn’t agree more. I think just really connecting with people at, at their own level and, letting go of your ego, your entitlement or whatever it is. Just leave all that behind the moment you pack your bags and you go somewhere. Even if you’re going somewhere just to meet someone, just leave all of that behind because having that real connection, that honest connection enriches you in so many ways. So in your experience how can we be more sensitive and conscious travelers?Can you share some tips perhaps? Yeah. So

Yulia: I think to your earlier question about being an immigrant, I think what it comes down for me is empathy because, you know, my whole life story unfolded in a way that I was more often than not the other, I was more often than not the one who needed to fit in or assimilate or to find a way into an existing group or a community. And so now where I go and I meet people from all over the world, I have that empathy and I have that understanding of their positions, because I know what it feels like to be that other. And so what I would say is that when you’re out and about and you’re exploring new places, having that empathy for the other person’s position and where they’re coming from, that’s probably a good start. And I would also say that whenever I have an opportunity to go see an instagrammable place or to spend five minutes with somebody who offers me a cup of tea, I will choose the cup of tea because I know that human connection that you were talking about earlier, just sharing a laugh or sharing a story is so powerful. And the more of those types of experiences that you have, the more you will be seeking out those kinds of experiences in going forward. And I think that it’s something that attracts and reciprocates because for me, I always, without fail, meet amazing people when I travel that often become my friends and just bring so much more richness in my life that I would encourage anyone to try and seek out that connection in that experience.

Karthika: Oh my gosh, that’s so good. I love it. And you’re so right. I mean, yes, social media is big. Yes, it’s incredible way to connect with people, but I think that so much of value in even picking up the phone, hearing the person’s voice or meeting face to face for a cup of tea or a cup of coffee or sometimes it’s just as simple as a smile and a wave. That’s an invitation to have a conversation to get to know the person. I love it. I love all of this. And that’s sort of gets back to a little bit of home and where you are. I know you’ve moved around quite a bit, but what is home for you? You said your life is on the road, but it Estonia still a home or do you have memories there or do you kind of wherever you go next to sort of home.

Yulia: You know, the way I want to answer that is with a quote, and I don’t remember all the words but it goes something like this – we will never be exactly the same again because pieces of our hearts are left in places where we meet and fall in love with people. And so for me, this is kind of my idea of home now. Home for me is people who I love and who I’ve met throughout my travels and when I come and spend time with those people. I love Istanbul from the first time I set foot there in 2013. I just immediately fell in love with the city and every time I come there now I feel like I’m home even though I’m not from there and I have amazing friends there. So every time I get a chance to come and spend a couple of days in Istanbul, I take it. And that’s my home. Kazakhstan is still my home. I have still family there and you know, I feel so good when I come back and I spend time with them. Jordan is becoming my home, you know, so in a sense I don’t think I have a definition of home. I’m in a transitional way of that word. I really don’t feel this way because of all of my different experiences and have all the different places in which I lived. But for me now home is more of a concept in the feeling and in the experience of being with people I love, you know,

Karthika: I think this whole interview has me goosebumps the entire time. I could not even attempt to paraphrase that so I won’t. I love it. And I think that is so true. I think there are places and there are people that you sort of feel very connected to. Even if you have not known them for very long or even if you’re going to a place for the first time, there is some sort of soul connection that just makes you just feel instantly at home and you just feel instantly at ease. For some people that is where they’re grown up and where they’ve lived. For some people, that’s where they live now. And for people like you, it’s all these places that you go that you, you are so open to the experience that you find yourself kind of connecting with each and every one of them in different ways. So I think that’s such a beautiful way of answering that question. So the interest of time, perhaps we can do a couple more and then we can wrap it up. So in terms of memories, do you find yourself sort of gravitating towards certain sort of foods or people or memories that put you at ease?

Yulia: Yes, definitely. I mean, I think all of us have those childhood memories or memories from our teenage years that make us feel in a certain way. One of the memories that I often come back to for me is growing up in Estonia. Summertime was the best time because that’s when the white nights were happening. You know we get like 20 to 21 hours of daylight which is amazing. The sun would never set. So me and my friends, you know, we’re young at this point. Maybe 9 or 10 years old, we would go on the streets at 11, 12:00 at night and we would just walk around the streets and that felt so great. And the light was out. It was daytime. I think about that experience quite a lot.

Yulia: And my mom’s breakfast of eggs that she used to make me in Estonia. I think about that quite a lot. She used to make this killer eggs with tomatoes. Oh my god. And we lived in this such a tiny, tiny apartment, like I mentioned, you know, we wouldn’t have a lot of money and we shared our apartment with an Estonian gentlemen. So it wasn’t even our own apartment. It wasn’t completely ours and our kitchen was very tiny. But that memory of her preparing that dish and us sitting in that tiny kitchen and eating , I was the happiest child on earth.

Karthika: I know I can totally relate. Back when I was growing up, my mom, she worked as a teacher and she would get up at 5:30 in the morning. We had a small kitchen. I had to pull my study desk in because that was the time that I would get up, I would do my homework and I would study. And if I was in my room I would just literally go back to sleep. I would sleep sitting up. So my mom decided that she had to kind of watch over me. So we would pull the desk back in the kitchen and I would get up, brush my teeth and my mom would make this amazing chai. I don’t know what she put in it, but it was just something that for me mornings was that time, it was that cup of tea, which has probably had nothing out of the ordinary, but for me at that point it was just a time for me to spend time with my mom. I would watch her, do her thing, me study and us talking. So that for me is a memory I hold on to. Morning tea has the memory associated with being with my mom and being in that tiny kitchen. I mean now when I go back and look at the apartment and I’m like, oh my god, how does this fit in here? But we made it. We made it happen. And it was that memory and that experience that always brings a smile to my face so I can completely relate to the eggs and tomatoes.

Yulia: Its amazing how powerful our memories can be. Right? And they bring us back right away.

Karthika: Oh totally. So what lies ahead for you? Are you sort of fully living your dream or what comes next?

Yulia: You know, I am living life exactly the way I’ve always wanted to live. I have so much freedom, you know, at a moment’s notice I can go and I can pick up and go anywhere I want. I can work on any projects that I want. And in fact, when I left corporate, I told myself that now is your chance to really work only on things that set your soul on fire, so to speak. You know, because you’ve already been to corporate and you’ve done that, right? So now is your chance to really pursue the projects that you truly believe in. And I feel very fortunate and very grateful to be able to do that now, you know, so for next year, I’m continuing to grow Nomad and Jules. We’re going to start to offer trips to Lebanon and, of course Jordan, hopefully Egypt and Tunisia. And I am growing my travel journalism career and just kind of being open to whatever comes next. So I definitely think that I’m living my dream. It doesn’t come easy just to caveat, you know, it’s not easy. But it’s a struggle that is really worth it for me. And I’ve never been happier in my entire life. I am now working on things I truly believe in.

Karthika: I am so happy for you. I mean to have that mindset that, you know, I am doing what makes me happy and acknowledging the struggle, right? We all know it’s not easy, but still having the fortitude to say that this is what I want to do. Welcoming all the struggles because you know that at the end of the day you’re happy. It’s a wonderful place to be. I really wish you the very best. I know I’m going to be watching all these trips and hopefully can come on one with you. Thank you so much, yulia. I really appreciate all your input, all your insight, and this was such a wonderful chat.

Yulia: Thank you so much Karthika. I have told you this before, you’re a wonderful interviewer and a wonderful listener, and you’re always asked the best questions. I had an amazing time today and I wish you all the best and hopefully we’ll connect soon.

Karthika: Absolutely. Thank you so much.