The Transcript

Karthika: Welcome Stefania thank you so much for joining me on CulturallyOurs. I am excited to have you on the podcast and I cannot wait to chat with you and get to know you a little bit better.

Stefania: Hello. And thank you so much for having me.

Karthika: Absolutely. So, before we begin, could you tell us a little bit about who you are, where you’re from, just to help set the stage for this conversation?

Stefania: Okay, I’ll start from where I’m from. I’m originally Italian and this question normally creates me a little bit of trouble recently because I don’t know where I am from anymore. And I lived for a long time in my country, but then I’ve been traveling a lot in the past 15 years. I’ve been a bit all over. So, I am not sure where I belong anymore.

Karthika: That’s fine. And thank you for acknowledging that. A lot of times, we don’t want to accept it, so we try to force it and I don’t think that makes us very happy.

Stefania: I have my accent. Keeping me grounded so that I will always be tied for the rest of my life.

Karthika: Absolutely. Now, you’ve lived all over the world. How did this nomadic life sort of come about? I mean, what made you take that first step to leave Italy?

Stefania: I think I am a migrant by choice, by essence. I mean, since early childhood I never really felt at home in my own country. That’s why I was mentioning that. I don’t know where I am from. I grew up in the countryside. We were originally from Milan, but my dad wanted me to grow up in the countryside. So, we moved out and we lived in a very tiny, lovely village, by the way. However, by the time I was an early teenager, I was just feeling so claustrophobic there, the provincial was feeling not stimulating enough so I convinced my poor parents to go back to the big city. By the time I was in my late twenties, Milan felt very small. I wanted to go, I wanted to explore, and I was so impatient, so I had the urge to leave. One day I just left my job, my house, my boyfriend and I bought a ticket to Africa I had for years and never had the chance because all the time, friends and families had other plans and they wanted to go to other places. I did travel alone. And this is more or less what I’ve been doing since this by now I have my kids and they had their fair share of locations.

Karthika: Wow. So, you just kind of picked up and just said bye to everything and left.

Stefania: It’s been something like that, which I can’t explain in detail. I left my job and left within a week. That was the time it was still a week despite the fact that we are only talking about 2003, things were different then. Then I went to a travel agency and bought tickets and got my visa sorted. And so, a week was just really the minimum time that you could get everything organized. And, it’s like talking about another era now. So, I just left. I didn’t have very clear plans. I wanted a sabbatical. I wanted to take life a little bit easier or explore and probably find myself or find whatever I was looking for. And I just left.

Karthika: Hat’s off. It’s not easy. It takes a lot of guts. That takes a lot of courage. Even if you’re by yourself, I think that makes it even harder. How was Africa, how was that experience? Did you spend most of your time there or did you move around from there as well?

Stefania: I mean, I did travel while living in Africa, but at the time yes, I just went to Kenya and fell in love with the place. And, just stayed for only 12 years old. It is still a place that has my heart. Well my kids are born there. I still have lots of family and friends there and part of my work is there. So, it’s ongoing. I don’t live there anymore, but it’s still an ongoing relationship that will never be closed probably.

Karthika: Of course. Now in all your moves from Italy to Kenya to Scotland and now you’re in the UK, can you share some experiences or people who you’ve met maybe who’ve had a very strong impact on your life, your lifestyle? And I think, more importantly, your mindset?

Stefania: I met a lot of very interesting people also in Europe and the UK, but probably from that point of view, Kenya has been the real eye-opener because, obviously the difference in that in the culture and also, the fact that Kenya is a very multiracial, multicultural place. So, I was exposed, in my daily life to so many different cultures and religions and races. And so, it’s been a sort of an intense cultural course from that point of view. And that is where I met the most different people, with different lifestyles and even different mindsets. And that has changed me. I think drastically and forever. I mean I will always be thankful to Africa because it made me a very different person. I’ve thought to be the Italian lady that was spending holidays abroad. And what I didn’t know at the time, but I know very well now is that when you become one with a place there is no way back. You’ll never be the same person and your heart will always be in more than one country. You would always long for different places to live off nostalgia. And it’s a life-changing experience that turns you into someone else. You can’t go back.

Karthika: No, I agree. I think when they say that the travel bug hits it does hit quite hard. It’s like you’re planning your next adventure even you’re on the current adventure. It’s like you’re constantly thinking what’s next? Where am I going to next? Who am I meeting next time?

Stefania: Yes, strangers become friends and travel becomes normality. My kids tell me this all the time because they are used to living in Kenya. Now where we live, they say everything is the same – people, food, culture. We all eat the same stuff and it’s just  because they really grew up surrounded by so many different groups of people. Kenya has 43 different tribes and even though they all Kenyans, they are sometimes quite different people. And I had a huge community of Indians that are now maybe third, fourth, fifth generation, Kenyans. But they are very different from the Indians that you meet in India. And we have even lived in Nairobi which is a real melting pot. That was our normality and, I mean I still remember my son coming from kindergarten and speaking Gujrathi. Every single experience and different culture that I have been exposed to has affected me. Even the one that I found most challenging because it’s also not always easy. Like for example, for me the Arab culture has always been challenging. First of all, I married a man who was originally from Syria. So I had to learn a culture where you say something, but you mean something else where you don’t have to rush into a conversation or push things through everyone. Everything takes its own time. Preliminaries are the key to the heart of the people right then. Sometimes was so frustrating for me, but it’s been actually the most different cultures and the most challenging one that have taught me a lot. And I have learnt that there is a richness even in those.

Karthika: Absolutely. I couldn’t agree more. And I think this leads me very nicely into my next question because I was going to ask you being an expert migrant as you put it. Often we always see the glamorous side of being a nomad. But what were some of the things you found harder to assimilate at the beginning?

Stefania: Many things because first of all, very often you are a little lost. Things happen around you and you don’t grasp all the meaning of what is going on. So, it does take time to, I mean even mastering a language that is not yours. Despite if you can speak it more or less well, just kind of getting the vibes of a place or, why people do certain things. One of the episodes that I will never forget is when one of my very close friends, a Muslim Indian man, died. And I could not attend the funeral because I was a woman. So, they set me down with the ladies in prayer. And I remember feeling so frustrated and angry because I was sitting there, repeating words I didn’t understand and praying to God that I didn’t know and couldn’t be where I wanted to be. And, so experiences like that, they really kind of like scarred me in a way. But then in time, when you get to know the people and you get to know these women and you get to know why and everything, it all makes sense eventually in their system. However, the first impact is strong. As I said, I had a sort of a full immersion in so many different cultures because I had dinner parties and I had Buddhist, I had Hindus, I had Muslims and I had Arabs and they all became friends. You learned how to know yourself and it all gets fine. And then, of course, the less glamorous side is also that moving a lot. It implies that your family and friends are all over and very often they are not with you keeping up human relationships. I mean, really meaningful friendships and human relationships take more effort.

Karthika: That is so true. And I’m just going to add, I think your dinner parties would have been fascinating. I have to ask this because, for me listening to you and imagining your life, it seems magical. But I imagine also having its fair share of challenges. So what are some of your mottos or mantras in life? And maybe another way to ask this is, what motivates you and drives you to keep going, to keep doing all these moves to all these changes, especially now with kids and family and stuff. What is that like from a life and lifestyle perspective, what keeps you going?

Stefania: In one word is growth. Spiritual and intellectual. Every day we given all these opportunities to learn something, to enrich ourselves one way or another, whichever way it goes, it doesn’t matter. So I think I feel this deep process of improvement of yourself as a person, as a human and that motivates me. And I think if I have to choose a motto one only because, I mean it’s a hard one. There are many, but Sir Francis Bacon said that knowledge is power because I really do believe that knowledge and obviously, I’m not referring only to academic knowledge, and seeking knowledge is powerful and it’s empowering and it’s one of the most beautiful things you can own as a person. And pair it with John Keats that said, truth is beauty and beauty is truth or something like that. And also because I am a very curious person by nature.

Karthika: Hey, those are good reasons. Curiosity and that constant wanting to know what’s out there, wanting to learn, wanting to better yourself. I think those are very powerful motivators because that’s what you’re made of deep down inside. And a lot of times we, for whatever reason, pressures of society or financial obligations or whatever it is, we let that get subdued and, pretty soon more than half your life has gone and you’re like, what am I doing? Well how can I do something that I enjoy, and I want to do. So, hats off to you for figuring that out.

Stefania: I know my fair share of that stressor. I had my head down and going on with life. You don’t even know why you are doing that every day. But yes, I think I was at least lucky to wake up or be woken up by life. Sometimes it’s the life that challenges you to make decisions in a way or the other even if they don’t work,

Karthika: Yes and that seemed to play out in your career as well right. You said earlier you moved to Kenya and I remember you and me talking and you said, you had managed a camp, and you were an entrepreneur in Kenya, then you set up a company and now you do something completely different with travel and photography and a soon to be coming online shop. So how did all of this happen? We are multi-passionate, we want to do a lot of different things, but don’t quite know where to start. So any pieces of advice for somebody who is kind of like you wanting to do something different?

Stefania: When I started my business in Kenya, yes, I was managing a camp and at the time I was happy with what I was doing. I just loved it. But we had to stop because of the political turmoil at the time of elections. The reaction of the government was to put a veto on traveling to Kenya and the tourism industry suffered dearly. So, at that time, I was one of them. And, we found ourselves from having a thriving business to having no business overnight for six months. We had to make a decision. I mean, we could just not support financially any longer. So, I had to change. But in that case, for example, it was probably something I would have not done if that didn’t happen because I am really happy with what I was doing. And at the time we were very discouraged by tourism, because this is every four years. So that’s what probably what pushed us or convinced us to try to do something completely different. And my husband had this dream of working in the renewable energy field, so he talked me into opening a company in that field and that’s what we did. So we moved to Nairobi. It is a huge, very crowded, very vibrant capitol. We went to the big capital and we started all over building this company and, which is still there and still doing well. It’s something I’m very proud of because it’s been a journey, a jump in a field I didn’t know at all and I had to learn everything. I had a lot of support from my family in Italy because my father is in a similar field and but anyway, it’s been a ride that one. And that one I decided to drop eventually because it’s been the most extraordinary experience. I learned so much but it wasn’t my thing. I had started it out of need. We had a very young family and we did not have much money. We sold a business quickly and gambled all that money into this other business. It was a very, tense and difficult period. Eventually, I was very unhappy, five years on the line and the company was running and everything. But I just didn’t know who I was anymore, and it wasn’t the reason why I had gotten to Kenya. So again, I had to do something because my health was, talking to me. My mind was screaming to me, telling me, hey, a yes, you’re playing the very successful business woman, but that’s not you, right? Not who you want to be. And I miss the creativity and I just knew that I had to go. So, the game again, it was a choice, but it was also something I had to do because I said everything was falling apart. So, for those who are, multi-passionate and, maybe thinking to leave their present life for a different one. The only thing I can say is it’s not easy and very painful at times. But you have to listen to your mind and your heart. Change is hard.

Karthika: True. How badly do you want to do the things that you want to do in life? Now let me ask you this because there’s so much in your life, right? So, forget the physical moves. I think even just mentally, emotionally, and you have kids, that always adds a little bit of complexity to the mix. How do you balance everything that’s going on in your life, your career, your work, your family, or your aspirations? How do you balance these things?

Stefania: I hope I don’t disappoint you, but the truth, I don’t and I actually, to be honest, I believe less and less in balance. What I mean is that, there are a lot of different types of people and some people, and I put myself among them are not very good at balance. We just are not good at it. For me work has always been a very big component of my life. It’s defined me, is triggering me, is fueling me. It’s very important to me. It’s not something that is imposed. There is not because I have financial constraints, or it doesn’t matter. It’s always been like that. And my father and I are the same. My work is always been pushing on one side more than everything else. So, it made me feel like I was a bad mother. I was a bad wife. And, that left me on heartbroken for a long time. Nowadays, with a little bit more wisdom and aging I just can’t be anyone else. And, my father was the same. I never spent a holiday with my father or spent much time with him, but I am one of the most important people in his life. And, yes, we had little time, but the time we had was always extremely meaningful. I have my good things, my bad things, but, that’s the person I am. So, I found that I’m a much better person since I stopped trying to be balanced.

Karthika: I love it. I love that answer. We come with our own set of good, not good and bad, but our own set of nuances and stop trying to change, to fit some mold. Right?

Stefania: You have to be comfortable with who you are. I might not be the mom who bakes cookies with my kids. But I mean my kids now are teenagers and I honestly don’t think they resent me for being who I am. I think they get it. And, maybe yes. they don’t get cookies sometimes, but we do find ways to have fun together.

Karthika: No I get it and I can relate. I hate to cook. I’m a terrible cook and I think you’re right. My kids just accepted. In fact, my daughter now is showing interest in the kitchen. I’m like, go for it. She made cupcakes yesterday and they were pretty good. And I’m like, oh, this is awesome. I’m a photographer so I have tons of cookbooks, not because I want to cook from it, but because I want to get inspired. So she is like, mom can I use your cookbooks to cook. And I couldn’t be more thrilled. You are who you are so stop trying to be somebody you’re not. Let’s, let’s try to wrap this up. Just in the interest of time with a few more questions. Can you share some of your most beautiful seasons or experiences and on the flip side, maybe something that was hard and what that taught you.

Stefania: Ah, okay. My best seasons for sure have been my university years because those were the years where I started with no care in the world. You don’t get much time like that in your life, when you can enjoy something just for the sake of it. Then definitely my first year in Kenya was magic. I mean, discovering Africa, the bush, the animals, the wildlife. And my lifestyle changed completely. I was in a symphony with nature. It was such a different life. The most difficult ones were definitely my last times in Kenya when I started realizing that things weren’t working for me anymore. First years in Europe when I came back with a serious burnout. Probably, I don’t know because it was never diagnosed, but I think I was depressed. I had several mental issues to solve and know how to because I never realized I had a problem. So, it didn’t help. No one suggested that I should get help so I didn’t. I had to kind of put back myself together with no help or support having two kids that were still young trying to build a new business. And I was very confused and lost and it’s been hard, but if I can say is that it taught me is that if I could survive that, I mean I am a much stronger person today. And I think that also, brought me to confront a lot of ghosts and a what I considered my failures, my mistakes. I had to get to look at myself, learn to know accept myself. That is the most difficult part. And, so that’s why I talk the way I talk today. I wouldn’t have ever spoken about things like that a few years. But now it’s been extremely liberating and empowering. So, I think, well, I learned out of this is really to be myself.

Karthika: So what advice would you give a younger Stefania? If you could go back and meet her.

Stefania: Oh, first of all, to listen to other people less. Not to bother with what they think at all because I spent a lot of my life, being very bothered by what other people thought and trying to be the person they wanted me to be. To just follow your intuition, my intuition in this case, that has always proved right. That’s the same intuition that brought me to Kenya, the one that brought me to Scotland, the one that brought me here., as long as I’ve listened to myself, I’ve always, got somewhere that was a good place. So, listen to yourself and you’ll be all right.

Karthika: Now what do you do for fun. How do you unwind after a long day? I love reading. I know it sounds, maybe it’s not the most relaxing thing. I love reading, so I read compulsively. I’ve been reading all my life. That’s one of the things I enjoy more. I also love a good movie or a good piece of classical music or opera. I also love walking my dogs so that is good therapy for me.

Karthika: I love it too. I mean, just getting outdoors is like a weight lifted off your shoulder. I just feel like I breathe so much easier when I’m outdoors.

Stefania: And I think you clear your mind as nowhere else. I mean is there is no other activity to me at least that just clears my mind and is because, I feel like I’m not thinking about anything. But when I come back from a walk, I blog about everything and that is very therapeutic. And the dog makes it all okay.

Karthika: I agree. Okay. Quick rapid-fire round. So, whatever comes to your mind right off the bat. Don’t overthink it.

• Coffee, tea or something. Tea.
• Favorite flavor of icecream – I’m not really into ice cream, but if I have to have then Nutella, otherwise it’s not worth the calories.
• Movies – Action, adventure or drama – Drama. I don’t like too much of special effects. The movie has to be soothing for me.
• Favorite seasons? Spring, summer, fall or winter – I love them all because I spent 12 years without having no seasons. So we enjoy the seasons so much.
• What was your childhood dream job? What did you want to be when you? – Can you believe I wanted to be an air hostess. I have traveled a lot alone. Since I was five, I was sent to my grandparents or for some study programs. So, the air hostesses used to take care of me and they were so tall and beautiful in their uniform. So, I don’t know, I thought it was a cool job.
• Beach or mountains – None. I’m a country girl at heart.
• Tacos or pizza – I actually love Asian food.
• What are the three must-haves that you take with you on every trip? – Camera, a book to read and a notebook.
• Your favorite country in the world – Kenya and Scotland. I can’t make up my mind between the two.

Karthika: No, that’s fabulous. Now what lies ahead for you? Are you fully living your dream or what comes next of its okay to share with us.

Stefania: Oh. I’m passionate about my photography work and my blog that gives me a chance to write which is I love to do. I’m passionate about what I’m doing right now. I am starting to consider seriously the possibility of writing a book or something. I’ve been told many times I should do, but I never thought that I could do it. So, I’m kind of considering at the moment. But it’s not really something I’ve made up my mind and then I’m just following some passions outside of work around astrology and herbal medicine and just entertaining myself with those things.

Karthika: That’s okay, we all need that passion project or something that we are doing just to make us happy right?

Stefania: Yes and we have just moved back to England. And to honest, we are already considering homeschooling for the kids and to maintain our nomadic lifestyle. Or maybe take us a few months to Kenya and a few months wherever the wind calls us.

Karthika: That sounds fantastic. Thank you so much this has been amazing, and I loved chatting with you. You have such a wonderful perspective on life and career and just being yourself. So, thank you so much.

Stefania: Thank you so much for having me. It’s been such a pleasure.